FIRE Math Checks Out but the Life Doesn't
Multiple posts explore the emotional and philosophical aspects of Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE). Individuals are questioning whether pursuing extreme wealth or frugality is truly fulfilling, seeking a balance between financial security and enjoying life’s experiences.
SOURCES (60)
“I dunno. If I had that amount of money, I'd buy an island or three. Or at least have easy reliable access to them. And travel the world around the seasonal best times to be in each place... and bring the fam along and let…”
“Given that this seems to be such a more prominent topic in younger generations, I’m sure a lot of you guys have thought about it. Do you guys have a fire number/age? Or an age where you plan to just coast and no longer save and then tap her off into retirement? I feel like it’s so hard to plan for something so far down the road, but it never hurts to plan. submitted by /u/icarus2847 [link] [comments]”
“It's the one thing I will not think twice about. I can't fly economy anymore. By the way, he said his NW is $40M, not his liquid invested portfolio. Could be an expensive real estate portfolio dragging down the overall annual income, but anything over $20M and you should be flying business, always.”
“Yes. A few years at the beginning or retirement where I mentally allowed myself to make mistakes and chalk it up to learning helped me a lot to just try different things.”
“Mill Valley and an early retirement on $10M is next to impossible at any lifestyle that all that money and hard work should warrant. You do it if that's where all your friends and family are but I think you're knee deep in the rat race there with no way out. I used to surf at Stinson way back in the day. Never again once I surfed warm water. Maybe run the numbers on North County San Diego? No clue how pricing is there now but I hear it's gotten crazy. Either way the currents come up”
“Found them from friends that I trust before 90% of the wealth that I have today was created. Honestly, if I was starting from zero today, I’d probably just go at it alone. They definitely help with the psychology of investing and we have know each other through my wealth creation journey. But the actual tactics and investment opportunities are fairly undifferentiated. It’s low enough on a basis points basis (if that makes sense) that I keep it going. I have some friends using JPM and GS who get”
“Set expectations up front. Talk. I don't know why people worry about things they can literally talk about and solve for beforehand. <-- how do you anticipate and solve problems in your life, otherwise? Also believe it or not, taking your children to the park during the day is actually the rich life. My wife understood that when I was able to cut hours from my job (entrepreneur) I would be replacing them with my own free time. I was clear up front, she respects this and encourages it. I al”
“The best part of this is that you have other friends in similar situations. Did you look for this community or did you already have it?”
“99% of this tracks for me. Don't listen to the vocal minority, they're not in your shoes.”
“This is tricky. I’ve been lucky because we have young kids so there are other SAHPs around some. And we have deep outdoor sports hobbies so some people do those so obsessively too that they work less or odd schedules to be able to take advantage of conditions. But generally it is hard. Friends who are stuck in the grind are just so so busy. Even when we hang out the busy energy keeps going. It took a while to drain out of me, too.”
“TLDR: I’m 6 months since pulling the plug . Mid 40’s MCOL, $40M+ NW and young kids at home. It’s been mostly great, with some unexpected surprises. First the surprises It’s really hard to imagine what life will be like when you lop off a 50-60 hour / week portion of your life. Who will be around to hang out during weekdays? What will your kids think you do? The more you can model this out the better, but it’s really hard to forecast and I didn’t do a great job of this. What will change about you”
“Hit my number overall nw this year but a bit short when it come to taxable investment account. So decided to go for a long transition into fire! I am on burnout sick leave now, got pregnant, and will take maternity leave and then sabbatical if employer approves. Anybody else out there doing this kind of transition? What did you do and what kind of preparation is needed? So far, I have been testing out learning new languages, spend summer in a different country for extended periods, reading proje”
“I cant make up my mind and my decision changes every week. What would you do personally? Option 1: 6 years until leanfire (covers current lifestyle) Option 2: 11 years until fire (current salary withdrawals) Option 3: 16 years until fatfire (2x salary withdrawals) submitted by /u/Sea-Protection-2797 [link] [comments]”
“Ultimately I think it's creating another solution for herd mentality / prescribed behavior. I'm arguing that FIRE is about having the first real opportunity to write your own script. But I think you're right, there are so many examples of people who just *need* someone else to tell them what to do next. So if that's gonna be the case, best to channel it toward something good, as you suggest. But again, the bigger philosophical / psychological unlock is answering the question &quo”
“I also think a lot of people are missing that ALL of this ambition is inspired by possibly getting a new job with a 36k raise that is within Biking distance from my home. So they're seeing my current income and 401k balance and just saying FIRE is a Nah which I knew its the new green grass I'm walking towards that's inspiring the FIRE thought.”
“I earn between $500 and $1500 a month in passive income after expenses. That's the only thing I can count on right now, and today I quit my job anyway. For the past 14 months, I'd been working from home, and it was really good for me. Then our CEO announced that everyone would be returning to the office five days a week I was really worried about it all last week. Today was my first day back, and it felt like I'd escaped prison only to be thrown right back into the cage. I felt very”
“Thankfully you can continue to do all those things both before and after reaching FIRE status. In fact, after having done so you can even do it because you want to and when you want to rather than because you must in order to live.”
“What are your projections for rent vs. portfolio in 20 years? Will you be living some place cheap or are you in the US? If you plan to be in the US, then I would plan on owning a home eventually, even if its in one of the remaining LCOL areas. Your home isn't a single purpose asset and to consider it one is short-sighted. You have to have shelter and owning a home (historically) is a shield on the cost of maintaining shelter.”
“Been enjoying just doing my own writing creative project thing all by myself for couple months now since FIRE. Then , at today's school committee board meeting , I suddenly notice a great regression of my professional communication skills . We were having a planning meeting for our new school year. Somehow , for the life of me , I cannot seem to articulate my ideas / suggestions to the group . I struggled to communicate to a group of 8 people effectively and concisely multiple times in that”
“if that truly happens, time to leave for another country then there's ~200 country on this planet, take your pick, find which one you like or dislike depending on what you prioritize, then learn the legalese/requirement/culture/language yada yada, it's how I came to the USA, if USA truly implodes like you said (I doubt it'll happen at least for another 30-50 years though, people can take a lot of beatings before they're in 'nothing to lose' state and do riot/revolt/death,”
“?? what does 'limited funds' has to do with that? the question I ask is "which neighborhood, city, country is the best to spend my money in?" and in different life chapters, as you prioritize different things, the definition of 'best' changes, so the answer changes too like right now I live in San Francisco region I can buy a house right now all-cash if I want, but I don't, because I don't see it as worth it, and I define 'worth it' as "is this real”
“BLUF: I’ve got some general advice below that I believe fits your current situation. I highly encourage you to shift your paradigm from starting with a number to starting with a goal. You’ve got time to figure that out as you rein in your finances, but ultimately your “FIRE number” and financial plan should be driven by an assessment of what you will need to achieve your goals. —— I’m gonna give some basic advice under the assumption that you’re new to personal finance in general. Apologies if i”
“No offense, but at your current income/savings rate, you won't reach FAT status for awhile. If you want advice, you need to establish priorities - at your income, you cannot reach FAT, travel, and take care of your younger siblings. You have to choose. At your age, I'd focus on getting your income up as fast as possible while taking traveling when you're young. At your income, you can max retirement accounts, and imo, that's good enough for now.”
“Honestly feeling like I’ve wasted prime years (for self inflicted reasons, can’t blame anyone but myself) and feeling like I need to play catch up and speed up my ascent to fat fire. Currently 27 with a new job that’s, after tax and medical/dental/vision, netting me right at $5k a month. I have about $8k in debt that I’m prioritizing to pay off, and virtually no savings. I thankfully own my car but it’s almost at the point of needing replacing soon. Overall my monthly expenses with all things in”
“3M is a solid goal. That's essentially my internal debate, to go to that amount.”
“60k USD is a good number in lot of cities around the world but not in California USA though me personally I'm aiming for 3mil+ USD as a tentative goal before declaring retirement, and I don't plan on retiring in US, there's nearly 200 countries on this planet no one is saying I have to stay in 1 city”
“I don't have it me to change countries, but a cheaper part of the US I'm not objecting to.”
“Out of the crazy number of fire options, what made lean the most appealing to you? submitted by /u/FearlessPark4588 [link] [comments]”
“Me and my wife are fortunate to be in a position to coastFIRE now at 37. We have no intention of stopping contributions but if we did we are set for retirement at 60-65. I have two paths in front of me. Path A: continue to coast in my current role. It’s laughably easy and I enjoy all my coworkers and management. Issue is, from what I can tell, it has a shelf life of about 10 more years. Company has been slowly moving overseas via attrition. If I’m lucky I’ll be able to eek out 15 years. Path B:”
“I’m on the FIRE path and have been working towards it since i got my first job. i’m half way through my FIRE goal and at a point where a few hundred dollars wouldn’t move the needle at all. Sometimes i run into a situation where im not sure how to balance getting a freebie. I won an apple watch a few years ago and debated selling it since in my head if i was offered the opportunity to buy the watch at resell value i would’ve passed. I ended up keeping it and I really like it, especially since i”
“Hit LeanFIRE in my 40s - pretty much at the same time I got laid off. The job market has been brutal, and there really doesn’t seem to be anything out there for me (trust me, I’ve tried). As I’m settling into FIRE life, I’m realizing that I’d actually like more monthly spending room, particularly for things like health, fitness/wellness, and personal development. So I’ve set myself a new goal: get from LeanFIRE to ChubbyFIRE over the next 5 years. For those who’ve done something similar: what ad”
“Hey friends! I've been working in the outdoor industry for most of my adult life (both guiding and office work) and never thought I'd hit my leanFIRE number so soon. I'm about to turn 35 and left my last job 2.5 years ago to travel. I was fully expecting to work again and have never really tracked my income/spending very closely, but I hit my leanFIRE number in that time while volunteering and traveling with very low expenses. I'd love to chat with anyone else who is going throug”
“Hope you enjoy your dream house! A remember reading somebody saying, you should just do anything you can “now” instead of wait until you quit your job…. This is what fire is for”
“Friend of mine did pretty much this, after a couple years when we became better friends I realized his dad is loaded and he's not rejoining the workforce haha”
“It used to be a flex in the FIRE community. Look at me, I have all this money, and still choose to drive an old car to save money. Thankfully the cheap side of FIRE has really fallen away over the last 10 years.”
“I wrote an update on the key areas of my well being after a year in a retirement. Family: I live with my wife and son (edit: age 6), and obviously without a fulltime job I’ve been a lot more available. I am able to walk my son to and from school virtually every day. I can attend all of his sporting practices, games, and school events. This summer while my son was out of school he often stayed with me 3-4 days a week all day. We played pickleball, ran errands, and hung out with other kids in the”
“Childhood trauma resurfaced, went on a bit of a spiritual journey, building things back up again. I think it’s more about just thinking where you can be of most service to the world, then having a balance between patience, being ambitious and motivated until you bring that vision to life. Life as a whole is a lot more “play” when you don’t have to worry about $”
“House. Bought a more expensive house, in a more expensive city, and renovated extensively. Travel. Both frequency (increased number of trips), and quality (air cabin, hotel, etc.) Investments in assets (whether paying down mortgage, buying equities, etc) Those are the 3 big buckets that consumed my cash flow increases. Other things (like automobile, clothing, and so on) / did they increase? Yes, but maybe 10-20%, not so significantly (I drive a more everyday vehicle, not a Ferrari, for example.)”
“Please read sub rules before posting? What is the relevance of this post to fatfire and how does it relate to your situation? Low effort “ask a rich person” posts violate sub rules. You may be posting to the wrong sub.”
“I’m more HENRY than FATfire at this stage, but can comment on the lifestyle change as our income has increased. Take a vacation to Europe. Getting the upgrade to a first class train, getting a nice and large Airbnb even though we don’t need it, staying in cities and regions that are known to be more expensive. Here at home, I bought a 2001 Porsche boxster S to replace our 2010 Subaru as a second car, even though it is completely unnecessary. We could cut our expenses almost in half if needed, bu”
“I'm 25 and trying to figure out where the balance is between aggressively saving for FIRE and actually allowing my standard of living to increase over time. My current numbers: $3,650/month net income (including bonus) $1,250/month expenses $2,400/month invested ~66% savings rate ~$75k invested I live in a very cheap first-hand rental apartment in Sweden. It's a 40m2 basement, and I pay roughly 500$ per month including parking and utilities. (For context, I'm aware that housing and s”
“How has having kids affected your FIRE journey? I’d consider myself a fencesitter who leans toward having kids. My wife (mid 20s) and I (low 30s), are approaching a $1M net worth, and currently project that we could hit our FIRE number when I’m 45. If it were just the two of us, I think I’d retire early without much hesitation. We both love traveling, and the idea of having complete freedom to travel for months at a time is incredibly appealing. Kids make me think about it differently, though. I”
“Yes, this is the intent to help others make it, and do a generous act. Glad to hear that it's gratifying even if it may strictly not be RE”
“Great point about your uncle. I think it's the inner voice that I do enjoy the part of helping people as part of my career. However, the game has been won; 12/31 - changes made. I will work on finding things to hate less- the things I currently "hate" due to lack of time.”
“I think working through your past traumas will be very helpful to restore the spark you never truly had. At one point in life you will run into a wall where nothing external can truly excite you, so it's better to handle the internal stuff early, because the ROI there is truly infinite.”
“Good on you- I like your perspective of wanting to use your wealth to make a positive impact. And living with purpose is important whether working or retired. I see a lot of posts of people who fired and now don't know what to do with their lives. I do have some issues though- you say you want time, but why wait till fatfired. That's just wasting time. Also need to be in a good position to reach fatfire before retirement age. That's not easy. What are you doing with your leftover mon”
“FWIW I’ve really struggled with the baby/toddler phase. My kids turn 4 in a few weeks. If I had FIRE’d and was home with the kids all day I would have checked into an insane asylum. It’s not for everyone. Give it some time before making any big decisions. I am really glad I haven’t pulled the trigger yet.”
“How do you reconcile this with folks that must labor for the income to feed and support a family and future? One thing that's actually very nice about fire-ing, is that my income (was ~ $500K) would go ~ 33% to taxes (~ $130-200K) when I was working, but now my taxes are ~ $10K, this literally feels like I'm getting an extra $100K of income to spend annually when pulling the 'same' amount from my investments. I had understood the math before I retired, but the actual experience o”
“Yeah I think for me I need to know when to leave the Bay Area for relatively cheaper cities. That feels like a career hit in some ways but I'm not getting any younger and I want to improve the quality of my life with money. I've also never owned real estate, only rented. I was at FAANG for 6 years and had to leave abruptly last year when I was just above $3.1M. Joined a startup and vast majority of the growth the last 12 months has been the ETF increasing/compounding, no longer my contri”
“Great post thank you. Really enjoyed the discussion re change in interests in way you couldn’t contemplate before”
“Similar age. I am almost 6 years into Fatfire and husband is inching closer and closer to RE. It’s been great. We also have two young children, and having both parents around all day has been great for them and for us. It has made parenthood a lot more fun and less overwhelming (we also still have some paid help and preschool). I always comment when people say they have 6M+, why not pull the trigger if you have young kids? Or at least step back? These are the best years.”